Ultimately, the decision between a Schlter system or a cement board comes down to the particular application and the goals the user has for the floor system. Will be doing a bathroom gut and will be laying durock cement board over plywood sub floor. #1 - Backer board has nothing to do with HD or any other big box. Can you put Kerdi membrane over cement board? Should I redo this wall to avoid a mold sandwich? In a perfect job, it will waterproof. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. True cement board (Durck, Wonderboard) is my first choice as a tile or Kerdi backer. rev2023.3.3.43278. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. The problem is on the back side of the drywall, which is not protected. Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. Additionally, you can use KERDI-BAND around corners, seams, and joints to help with a waterproof installation. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . Applying a conventional cement backer board to such a structure is almost impossible. It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. All shower/tub areas should have concrete board (I prefer hardiboard). Keep in mind, that, just to be safe, most professionals choose to install a waterproofing membrane on top of the cement board when installing in wet locations like tub surrounds or showers. Step 3: Apply Thinset. If you are good with a trowel and understand how to set up and use screeds as a guide for leveling or forming the mortar, pouring a traditional mortar bed may be a good alternative to tile backer board, especially on uneven or sloping floors. The main issue caused by non-waterproof cement boards is the eventual warping and damage to the tiles, making it difficult and costly to fix without removing all the tile and starting over. If cement board had been used, most likely the damage would have been much less that what I have to deal with now. The tub flange can really be a pain in the butt when installing a tile tub surround. Welcome to the site. Sweeby-Can you clarify- I undestood that the thinset would tend to dry out from the thirsty hardi or skim over from the air; so how does booking the Kerdi help with the first? Shower Install - Cement Board or Schluter? - RedFlagDeals.com Glass mat gypsum board is a better choice. Been clankin' away at this computer for a couple of hours now, guys. With cement board as a substrate, the key is to ensure proper installation of the membrane. They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. When applying Kerdi membrane to cement board, the edges and seams of the membrane must be lapped, meaning that each layer should overlap the portion underneath it by a minimum of two inches. No, that doesn't sound right. The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. How to Install Kerdi Membrane - YouTube Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. To install Kerdi Membrane, start by applying Schulter ALL-SET mortar (or similar) to your cement board substrate using a 1/4" x 3/16" V-Notch Trowel. Since the existing wall board will be removed, I'd prefer to go a little extra and install a water proof cement board type base so the tile has a solid substrate even if it were to get wet . Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. And second, since it's foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. Thanks. I have to redo my tub surround due to moisture leaks and failing grout. Schluter Kerdi 108 Sq Ft Waterproofing Membrane - amazon.com This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Required fields are marked *. Ideally the DalSeal TS would fold into the gap between the wall and ceiling concrete board. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? It is designed to form a waterproof layer between cement board and tiles, helping create a watertight installation. Step 2: Determine the room's center. I hope you made the guy flood test his work prior to tiling the shower floor. The Kerdi/Daltile TS underlayments do have some valid applications such as in steam shower installations where a bullet proof vapor barrier is required. Ready to join the 100,000+ homeowners matched with pros? This is a very effective and popular method of installing tile, and one that ensures the tile doesnt crack. This is the traditional tile backer. 4. 173 upvotes. I would get someone else. Tile can be installed directly over Kerdi-Board using the thinset method; For use with ceramic and natural stone tile; Return Policy; California residents. For the floor I make a dry mix mud base and then the Kerdi membrane. The drywall's back side fails, and it's just as bad or worse than it was on the tile side. Kerdi Membrane not sticking to cement board - John Bridge Yup! I also used the Kerdi drain. Waterproofing is an important aspect of any bathroom or wet-area installation. Cement board is a good, reliable backer board that works well on both floors and walls. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! For the floor, he should've put a mortar bed, then a membrane that goes over the curb, then another mortar bed. Kerdi can even be installed over drywall. I want to mount a cast iron bathtub, but not pull down my 1905 plaster and lath. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. Schluter Ditra VS Cement Board (Which is better?) Not even the plumber's fault as it was just a bad valve. We are no longer supporting IE (Internet Explorer), Do not Sell or Share My Personal Information. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. If you are laying tile on floors that are wavy or out of level, self-leveling underlayment is a great solution. liquid waterproofing (redgard) over durock cement board - bathroom On top of that, fiber cement board is even more brittle than standard cement board, so you have to be extra careful to keep screws at least an inch from the edge to avoid breaking the board. It looks like Kerdi membrane is ~$2/sqft ($200 for a 108sqft roll) and kerdi board is $3.7/sqft ($115 for a 4x8 sheet (Lowes)). Press the Kerdi Membrane into the Thinset Mortar with firm, even pressure to achieve full mortar coverage. Jessica considers herself a home improvement and design enthusiast. The curb doesn't have to be any wider than a 2x4. Thanks to all for the feedback. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. The difference between the phonemes /p/ and /b/ in Japanese. If you want added info there's an old Kerdi thread here. Kerdi Membrane Installation (Step-by-Step Installation Guide) The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? Personally, I like standard drywall. Kerdi 3 ft. 3 in. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). Think about movement. The core isnt waterproof, but it can withstand getting wet without falling apart, so even if your waterproofing system leaks, the board will stay intact. Both Kerdi Board and cement board are designed to smooth out uneven spots on the installation surface, create an unbending layer that wont flex underfoot, and also provide a waterproof barrier. GoBoard Vs. Kerdi For Your Shower: In-depth Comparison It works well, is what Schluter recommends and I've never had an issue with it. The big issue with cement board is that the thinset will skin over really quickly. If so, that means breaking up the floor pan. When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. We were using a 3/16 x 5/32 trowel, probably to small. Jun 21, 2017. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. How should I transition between cement board floor and alcove tub? I used to "trust" the Kerdi and drywall until I had a shower that the valve broke inside the wall cavity four years after being put in. This will include installing its components, such as drain plate and drain collar, as well as Kerdi Band for further protection of seams and corners. This will help to ensure that all drywall is completely covered. When screwed to the framing, thin strips of cement board fracture more easily than thin strips of fiber-cement. Using Kerdi Schlueter membrane with cement board. - Houzz First, its super lightweight compared with the rest. But I can't give you a +1 because telling someone to mortar all the walls in a large shower is like telling them to make an ice sculpture. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Important to overlap seams in a shingle method. Drywall under Kerdi would have been a better choice. Slap it up comb it out, leave every ridge tall and perfect. bathroom - Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard - Home Improvement Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Mike Holmes uses backer on his show. #3 This is a DIY site. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. He would take his rough opening measurement and subtract the thicknesses of the tile, the cement board, and in his unique install method the purpleboard. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. You still use metal lath, but then mix bags of powder and pour the soupy mix onto the floor. Yes. The most important thing to remember when applying the membrane over the cement board is to make sure the surface is clean and free of any debris, dust or other contaminants. Should I use Kerdi membrane or cement backerboard? Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. I used 1/2 Hardibacker board over the studs and then used the Kerdi membrane over the Hardi. It is lightweight and made of expanded polystyrene. Like the example above. Being a Los Angeles resident, Jessica spends a lot of her time looking for her next DIY project and sharing her love for home design. Kerdi Membrane Over Plywood ThePlywood.com With that said, the key benefits of Kerdi Board include: While cement board may be the most common and widely-known tile substrate, Kerdi Board is giving it a run for its money. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_27',168,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0');if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[250,250],'remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1','ezslot_28',168,'0','1'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-narrow-sky-1-0_1');.narrow-sky-1-multi-168{border:none!important;display:block!important;float:none!important;line-height:0;margin-bottom:15px!important;margin-left:auto!important;margin-right:auto!important;margin-top:15px!important;max-width:100%!important;min-height:250px;min-width:250px;padding:0;text-align:center!important}Waterproofing should also be done on other areas in the shower as well such as the corners, window sills and other areas where water can easily accumulate. PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board - YouTube First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . Do I have to use Kerdi tape with Ditra membrane? The thickness of the tile is important, and should be known, but not because it changes the method of building. Schluter SET, ALL-SET, FAST-SET or an unmodified thin-set mortar must be used to construct all KERDI seams to ensure watertightperformance of the system. x 48 in. This is necessary to ensure that the membrane will adhere properly to the drywall. 3. Please feel free to reach out to our Product Support Team at 1-800-992-6273 if you need anything. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Once its cleaned, use caulk to seal all of the seams where the cement board meets the walls. As far as the tile/prep work, you are right that he is shifting the blame. 1. Fixing that is not that easy though. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Schluter approves their waterproof Kerdi membrane over drywall. We are still most comfortable with full plumber's pan over the curb, including glue-on preformed corners, and also a second layer (usually Kerdi but can be paint-on) on top of CBU wrap over curb. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. Cement board is known to be very heavy and somewhat difficult to cut. Here's how to get it right the first time, If you've got a steady hand, a few easy-to-find supplies and patience, you can install a tile backsplash in a kitchen or bathroom, Step 4 in swapping your tub for a sleek new shower: Pick your waterproofing materials and drain, and don't forget to test, Work with your contractors and installers to ensure a safe, stylish curb that keeps the water where it belongs, Get the benefits of a time-honored ritual without firing up the coals, thanks to easier-than-ever home steam systems, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, Out With the Old Tile: 8 Steps to Prep for Demolition, Convert Your Tub Space Into a Shower Waterproofing and Drainage, Steam Showers Bring a Beloved Spa Feature Home. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . Cement board is particularly vulnerable to water damage, so waterproofing can help protect it and help it last longer. It also features fleece webbing that allows for effective anchoring into thin-set mortar. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. There are numerous ways to do this. About an argument in Famine, Affluence and Morality, Acidity of alcohols and basicity of amines. In general, modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. In . Caulk the gap. They are designed to provide a waterproof, vapor-tight layer to the substrate, which in this case would be the cement board. Their lighter weight makes moving panels around during installation a cinch, which is a far cry from the heft of conventional cement board. Kerdi Board as a whole is much easier to install than Cement Board. Kerdi's systems are fairly reputable. The 1/4-inch-thick board is typically used on floors and countertops. I barely touch it with my hands before going to the tape knife. Additionally, if the cement board isnt waterproof, it can also cause mold and mildew issues, as well as dry wall damage from the moisture seeping through. Well, I'm going to give you three different ways to seal the backer board at the tub flange. It is important to overlap the edge of the membrane so that it covers slightly more than half of the drywall behind it. Everyone knows brick and stucco, but what about fiber cement and metal? Can be cut to size easily using a utility knife. The cement board can also become weakened and start to flake away when it absorbs moisture, causing ugly spots and patches to start appearing on the wall. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. Yes, it is recommended to waterproof cement board, especially if it is going to be used in exterior settings or in places where it will be in contact with water. Firstly, it is important to ensure the wall is adequately prepared and that it is smooth, flat and free of defects. That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. :/. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. We think it is the cement board (Durock) sucking the moisture out of the unmodified thinset. And for a more secure fit, you can also use screws. Shower walls construction made easy with Kerdi-Board panels. - La Tuilerie modified thin-set mortar is not recommended to set ceramic and stone tile, including large format tiles, over the KERDI membrane. Following these steps will help ensure that your shower space is properly sealed, and thus that the cement board is well protected from moisture. Kerdi membrane over drywall in shower - qkfb.recidivazero.it Cement board and grout are not water proof, if there's Kerdi no moisture is ever going to be able to get behind it. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Or will the Kerdi membrane (with seams taped with kerdi band) prevent each board from moving independently? But there are downsides. Can Kerdi membrane be installed over painted drywall? PROBLEM SOLVED for Tub Flange when Installing Cement Board and Tile. Hardie board is a cement-based siding product that is water-resistant, but not waterproof. Connect and share knowledge within a single location that is structured and easy to search. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Hardie board is thirsty, but that's way too fast. Using modified thinset on KERDI can be tricky and in some cases, it can cause issues. link to How To Organize A Bathroom Closet. Cement board comes both in 1/4-inch-thick and 1/2-inch-thick versions. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[580,400],'remodelormove_com-leader-2','ezslot_21',165,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-leader-2-0');Once the seams are sealed, lay down a waterproof coating to the floor and walls of the shower space. I like to use a garden sprayer to keep the thirsty Kerdi wet. This will help you achieve the best results and ensure the longevity of your project. I think the first one I used was cheap and that was part of the problem. To waterproof Hardie board, you should choose a quality sealer that is designed for use on cement-based sidings. Can I install Kerdi board just on the walls of my shower and use a PVC membrane on the floor? The back side of the drywall fails and it is just as bad or worse than if it had an issue on the tile side. Kerdi board vs. Membrane vs. Other for Shower - DIY Home Improvement Forum Also - use a good thinset. Not to mention, its warrantied by Schluter, giving you the ultimate peace of mind. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing.
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